fairyetc:

theongreyjoysassfullofheroin:

fairyetc:

behind-the-blow:

squaretactics:

Hi! You’re very kind, but
no, I’ve never studied psychology or anything. I just really love South Park and I think about the characters a lot. Too
much, probably. And nonsense, I love your Matt and Trey analyses!

Stan and Kyle are my two
favorite characters so of course I’ll discuss them and their friendship. I
think these two complement each other very well and balance each other out.
Normally, they’re attached at the hip, but these Super Best Friends have had an
argument or two (or three or four). They’ve fought or betrayed or called each
other out on five different occasions, if my memory serves: “Prehistoric Ice
Man,” “Mystery of the Urinal Deuce,” “Crack Baby Athletic Association,” “You’re
Getting Old/Ass Burgers,” and “Butterballs.”

The first two episodes
are pretty useless in terms of analysis and characterization. “Prehistoric Ice
Man” is the episode where Stan and Kyle have their first real fight. However,
this is early South Park and the boys haven’t developed their distinct
personalities yet. During season 2, Stan and Kyle are pretty much the same kid,
which means the fight doesn’t add any merit to their friendship. “Mystery of
the Urinal Deuce” is also an exception because Stan betrays Kyle to protect
himself from getting in trouble for crapping in the urinal. I don’t think he
intends to target Kyle in any way, but Kyle gets caught up in the plot and
won’t stop digging, in that Kyle way of his. Stan sort of has his back against
the wall here and pulls a gun on his friend to save himself. That doesn’t make
it okay, but it’s certainly understandable, and clear Stan didn’t do so because
of any malice towards Kyle.

Now things get a little
more interesting. I’ll compare “Crack Baby Athletic Association” and
“Butterballs” because they’re very similar in the way Stan and Kyle disagree.
“CBAA” has Kyle agreeing with Cartman and acting immorally so he seeks
validation from Stan. He rants and raves in Stan’s ear about why what he’s
doing is okay when he’s really trying to convince himself. He seeks Stan’s
acceptance because Stan is the closest thing to himself he can find. If Stan
says its fine, he can quit feeling guilty. However, Stan says “You sound like
Cartman” and stares deadpan the rest of the time because that’s all he has to say. He knows Kyle enough to be
aware that comparing him to Cartman is the ultimate insult and this comment
will cause him to sort himself out.

On the flipside, Stan’s
ego gets the best of him again in
“Butterballs” and Kyle is the only one who tries to make him see that. He
points out that the anti-bullying video is more about Stan helping himself than
helping victims of bullying and repeatedly tells him to be careful he doesn’t
wind up jacking it in San Diego. This sequence is played for laughs, but it shows
just how intuitive Kyle is. He knows about the history of Stan’s big head and
correctly predicts what will happen if it goes too far because he’s seen all
this before. He knows Stan insanely well and is smart enough to see patterns in
his best friend’s behavior that will spell trouble so he warns him because he
cares.

Now, before the next
segment, I want to say that I adore Kyle. He’s a good character, probably the
best person on the show morality wise, but…not
a super great friend. Stan has his issues, but he is a way better friend than
Kyle. I couldn’t analyze Stan and Kyle’s friendship without ranting a bit about
Kyle’s abandonment of Stan in “You’re Getting Old” and “Ass Burgers.” I’m still
furious at Kyle for how quickly he turns his back on Stan during his
depression. Kyle doesn’t even try to help
Stan in his time of need, which is particularly frustrating if you look at how
often Stan goes out of his way for Kyle. He schemes to get Cartman’s kidney to
save Kyle’s life in “Cherokee Hair Tampon,” writes a hit song so Kyle can return
to South Park in “Smug Alert,” and investigates the girls’ list to help Kyle’s
self-esteem in “The List.” I don’t even think those are all the instances where Stan sticks his neck out for Kyle. And
then, after all that, Kyle suddenly decides “I don’t care to be in this
friendship anymore” the minute Stan needs him? That’s pretty shitty, but I
think it makes sense if you look at Kyle’s character.

Kyle certainly has
relationships with the people in his life and cares about their well-being, but
his #1 concern is the right thing. If
he sees someone being wronged, he will intervene, even if that person is
Cartman and even if the wrongdoer is someone he loves. He is able to look at a situation
objectively and figure out the right course of action. This mentality is what
makes Kyle so great, but it’s also what contributes to his self-righteousness. I
think, in Kyle’s mind, he thinks the right thing to do is cut Stan loose. Stan’s
depression is sad, but it’s also a huge bummer to be around and he feels Stan
is harming his friends without meaning to.

Meanwhile, Stan uses his
heart rather than his head in decision-making. Often, he will only get involved
in a cause if it affects him personally. He leads a charge to protect whales
and dolphins because he loves
animals, encourages people to drive Hybrids and save the planet because his best friend moved away, and campaigns
for gay rights because his dog is
gay. This sounds a little more selfish and, I guess it is, but most of us are
guilty of it. However, Stan’s heart pushes him to protect his loved ones (i.e.
Kyle) past the point when others would have given up.

Part of this is because
Stan is extremely group-oriented. He needs a support system and clings to them
no matter the situation. In “Raisins,” when he becomes goth he latches on to a
new group of friends that share his values. In “You’re Getting Old,” Stan
claims that the only thing that isn’t
shitty to him are his friends. Kyle is a little more independent in that he can
probably survive without being part of a clique. However, I think this is where
the difference lies: Stan needs a friend group, but Kyle needs Stan
specifically. Looking back at all the times Stan has saved Kyle’s ass, it makes
me think that no matter how outgoing or badass Kyle is, he really needs Stan. Who else is going to
confront a fraud psychic to convince him not to go to Jewish boarding school? Not
Cartman or Kenny.

So there you have it.
This was long as hell, but I wanted to get all my thoughts on the page.
Basically Kyle is the head and Stan is the heart and neither can operate
without the other. It’s what makes them such an iconic duo and a strong team.
Maybe you can take this and write an analysis on how this compares to Matt and
Trey’s friendship. I hope I answered your question to your satisfaction!

Cool, thanks for the analysis!

The way I see it, it’s true what you said that the characters were still kind of looking for their final form in the early seasons but by now they’re pretty solid. While I think that the characters of the show themselves are quite well defined, believable and logical, sometimes the writers end up having to take some liberties to serve the story, even if it doesn’t seem to be completely justified from the character continuity point of view. I’m never a big fan of when that happens, because to me the best approach is always (which is what I’m sure Trey and Matt also prefer and are more proud of) to start from “How would this character react to this/ What would this character do in this situation?” rather than “What do we need to happen in the story next?”

I think that some of the potholes in the boys relationship are explained more by half baked story writing than well thought out character development, but I think you did a great job in outlining it all! Especially the heart vs the brain thing. I would love to do what you suggested and expand this whole thing to apply to Matt and Trey’s relation/ friendship but unfortunately I don’t really have the brain power for it now (because I would have to dig pretty deep, lol) but I think that in general the heart & the brain thing applies to Trey and Matt perfectly too.

I don’t know how to write this without it turning into a Stan vs Kyle discussion..this part “probably the best person on the show morality wise, but…not a super great friend.” I think you are not being fair with Kyle by mentioning assburgers and leaving out what is, in my opinion, Stan’s worse friendship betrayal, that time he chose popularity over Kyle, literally turning his back to him and leaving Kyle to get beaten, then dismissing it all when Kyle told them they have all abandoned him after the metro thing was over, then there is the last two seasons, in s19 Stan sided with the no more speeches because…just because, as behind the blow said this may be a bad writing arbitrary decision, doesn’t change the fact it’s still in the show therefore it’s part of his character, s20 wasn’t as bad yet we still saw him leaving Kyle alone in his battle to make peace the moment he crossed eyes with Wendy.

That’s a fair rebuttal
and I very well could have given Kyle a bad rap. I admit I let a little bit of
bias trickle into my analysis because I’m still furious over that “Ass Burgers”
nonsense. I thought about analyzing “South Park is Gay” but decided against it
because it didn’t feel like a Stan vs. Kyle fight to me. It was more like
showing which boys succumb to peer pressure and which don’t.

This episode is another
example why I think Kyle is more independent and able to function without a
group. He is fine with going against the grain and telling off his friends at
the end for abandoning him. Speaking of the abandonment, what Stan did wasn’t
right, but again, I don’t think he did it because of any ill will against Kyle.
He is caught in the middle of a new fad and, unlike Kyle, is unable to push
against it with individualism. Stan is much more inclined to go with the group.

“South Park is Gay” is a cool episode to look at in terms of their personalities. Stan needs to cling to a group so he is more likely to have a hive mind mentality while Kyle is much more committed to being an individual. It also shows one of the many examples of Kyle becoming unhinged when he is rejected (also seen in “Chinpokomon” and “The List”), which shows that even though he is intellectually mature, he’s emotionally unstable. I’d say the opposite is true for Stan. He feels things more deeply than Kyle, but once he gets stuck in that downward spiral he is still able to have a clear head. I’d say that when both boys are down, Kyle gets mad and Stan gets sad.

It’s hard to decide what Stan is thinking in the disagreements he has with Kyle in seasons 19 and 20. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s just because he and Kyle have differing values and, again, Stan finds it easier to go with the group than stand alone with Kyle.

The reason I think the “Ass
Burgers” abandonment is more despicable is because the stakes are undoubtedly
higher. Stan is depressed, isolated, and using alcohol to cope and Kyle is
nowhere to be found. To me, this is worse than Stan’s actions in “South Park is
Gay” because Kyle acts more selfishly. It’s very clearly Kyle saying “I’m
choosing me over you…sorry” and I didn’t get that impression from Stan in “South
Park is Gay.” It seemed more like Stan was put in a tough spot and made the
wrong decision.

Sorry for forcing more
unwanted analysis on you! I appreciate your response and it makes sense. I didn’t mean to pick on Kyle, but I see now that I did a little. Stan isn’t a perfect friend, but Kyle abandoning him in “Ass Burgers” leaves a bad taste in my mouth, far more than Stan’s transgressions, which is why I harp on it more.

No need to say sorry you are not forcing me, I enjoy analyzing too, back to the eps, I can’t still say to agree that assburgers is worse “It’s very clearly Kyle saying “I’m choosing me over you…sorry” this is what Stan did too, he was put in a situation where he had to chose between his reputation in the eyes of kids he wasn’t even close with, or his best friend, and he chose the first, then acted as if he did nothing wrong when confronted about it and went as far as to say Kyle was exaggerating. “the stakes are undoubtedly higher” are they? He knew he was leaving Kyle alone with a bunch of bullies with clear intentions of hurting him (and they did) as for his type of mentality, that is no excuse for the love he should feel for Kyle not having win when he got asked to choose.

And this is why these two f*ck me up. They clearly do love each other, shippy or not, they’re super best friends, yet both of them so easily abandon each other. I tend to notice it more on Kyle’s side, I think. It’s just amazing how easily they bail on each other, yet how far, particularly Stan, will go for the other.

I’m still watcing the series, and I sure as hell don’t remember every detail like more devoted fans, but really. What was the farthest Kyle has gone for Stan. All I can remember right now is when Kyle killed Jesus from what I remember?